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Carlee (00:02):
What do you do when the religion you grew up in doesn't really fit you anymore? Well, we're going to answer that question today on the Stress Less Show. Hi, I'm Carlee Myers, founder and leader here at the Stress Less Company where we help female leaders who are overworked and exhausted find that sense of peace and freedom that they desire. And this month on the Stress Less Show, we're talking about spirituality and religious trauma. And I brought on an incredible guest, Nicole Lewis Keeber who is a business therapist and mindset coach, coach for small business owners, entrepreneurs, and leaders. And she is really the go-to expert on how childhood trauma impacts entrepreneurship and has combined therapeutic processes with business coaching. Because I have never, in my entire life, heard of someone who combines the work around trauma with business, and yet, having a connection call with her the other day, I realized just how intertwined all of this shit is. So I am so, so excited to have you on the show Nicole, welcome.
Nicole (01:10):
Thank you for having me.
Carlee (01:11):
Absolutely. So this is a really unique top topic for you. I know it's a unique topic for me, so I'm curious if you'd be willing. Would you know, what was your experience with religious trauma like for yourself?
Nicole (01:25):
Yeah, so it's, you know, only recently in my adulthood have I began to see that that's what it was. Um, I grew up in a very conservative, Southern Baptist Christian family, and, you know, uh, indoctrination into Christianity starts from birth. If the door was open in church, we were there. So, um, you know, pretty much from the moment I had any kind of clear conscious thought of my own, it was being influenced by, you know, that Christian doctrine and not even just that, but the Southern Baptist kind of doctrine of life. And much of it, you know, I found to be quite alarming as a kid. And I remember being very frightened a lot of the times and I would have nightmares and not want to go to church because of the very graphic detail on which they would talk about, um, you know, hell, fire and brimstone. And, um, you know, I just, I got a lot of grief for it that I was sensitive and that, you know, I just needed to trust. And when you have childhood trauma, like I do, just trusting is not such a great and easy thing to do. So as I had to unpack that journey as an adult and unwinding the influence of that upbringing on me as a human being and as an adult, I had to really kind of figure out, do I reject that and do nothing, or do I unravel that, learn from it, unpack the trauma around it and then find my own spiritual way. And that is what I decided to do.
Carlee (02:58):
You know, what I'm I'm cause we hear the word trauma a lot. Um, and I hope I'm not putting you on the spot cause we didn't talk about this ahead of time, but would you be able to define trauma for our listeners that are like, we hear the word a lot, but maybe we're not all on the same page.
Nicole (03:13):
Yeah, well, we'd be in good company. Um, we don't really define trauma very accurately as a culture. We see trauma as like a big, what we call big T trauma, which is kind of a big event, catastrophic, maybe violence or, um, you know, a natural disaster or, you know, things that are kind of big out of our control and instantaneous and kind of change our lives in many ways. Um, but the truth is, is that there are so many ways to define trauma that are much less limiting than that. But we haven't been given the opportunity to define them outside of that big T trauma because the systems around us don't really want us to see those experiences as trauma. Because they are the perpetrators of those traumatic events in those systems around religion, academia, finance, you name it. So, um, so when we define it, we can look at it as either big T trauma or what I call small T trauma, which are those cumulative experiences that we have that make us feel unsafe or not seen or not valued or, um, you know, where we lose our autonomy. You know, when we begin to be indoctrinated into a religious belief system, we lose the ability to be ourselves. Like we we've lost that differentiation of who we are as a human being. And then we begin to see that we maybe we don't fit into this doctrine that we're being, you know, um, that we're being steeped in. And so then we begin to see ourselves differently and it becomes our problem because we aren't like the other people. And so that is a trauma that makes you see yourself differently, right? And it changes the trajectory of who you get to be in the world. So that could be an example of a, you know, what we call a small T trauma that is cumulative and progressive.
Carlee (05:01):
Yeah. It reminds me of something my mentor, teaches or she says, and it's, uh, I hope I'm not going to butcher it. It's, "Repeated socialization is trauma." Yeah. And it's really about getting away from who you really are, like essentially like deep down who you are and that's kind of what you said in so many words is that it, it kind of creates this new identity. That's not necessarily you it's, you know, applying, putting on a coat that doesn't fit really, you know? It's a little off. So we've talked a lot, you know, or a little bit, at least this month on the show about, yeah. I've talked about my experience with religious trauma. You've shared a little bit about yours. So when we, let's say for instance, I think both you and I kind of were raised in a specific religion. We grew up, we kind of separated from it a little bit. It just felt like it didn't fit anymore. If there's someone who's listening at home that they feel like they're in that position, that something feels off. Maybe they're like resonating with that repeated socialization is trauma kind of thing. What do you recommend that we do as like, as a first step to step out of that, that little T trauma?
Nicole (06:13):
Well, you know, and most of the time people wouldn't see any of those experiences we just described as trauma, which is, I think the first thing for us to recognize that, you know, don't minimize your feelings or your experience. Basically don't gaslight yourself about the feelings you're having about this. Um, so allow yourself to be curious about it first. And secondly, you know, go outside of your circle and start to explore and have conversations with other people. One of the things I see people do is when they start to have some kind of awakening outside of the religious upbringing that they had, where they go talk to the people who taught them that and start to challenge them or try to rebel against them or argue with them. And there's really no point in doing that. So, you know, don't ask for confirmation about the new things you're thinking from the people who taught you the thing in the first place. Go outside your bubble, read some books, maybe join some groups of people who are exploring spirituality outside of religion and begin to find what makes sense to you outside of that bubble.
Carlee (07:18):
Yeah. I love that. And it's so true. I think I can remember a specific memory for myself. I went to church every Sunday. I was in Sunday school every Sunday. And I started to have these doubts and it was, my immediate response was like, Oh, this is a safe place to question my spirituality. It was not, was not at all. I ended up being kind of personally attacked, emotionally, at least. And it was a very, very unsafe place for me to have, for me to experience that and start to question that. And, um, so, you know, I was like, okay, that didn't work, take two. Let's head in the direction that you recommend. And I think that actually is a much safer, a safer route.
Nicole (08:06):
Yes, I agree. But we've, we've been taught to be compliant with the systems around us, that perpetrate trauma to start with, right? So that is my most important tip right there. Is don't ask the people that are already in your circle. Go somewhere else.
Carlee (08:21):
Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, well, listen, this was great. And I know we could probably talk about this for hours. There's so much more to dig into, in terms of this topic, but I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the show.
Nicole (08:36):
Thanks for having me, important topic.
Carlee (08:39):
Yeah. That's really, really important. So, you know, we want to know, let us know in the comments below, you know, what resonated for you, um, what resonated for you? Does the, you know, repeated socialization stand out or, uh, is it not minimizing your feelings? For me, those are the two things that I heard today. Let us know in the comments below what really stood out for you. Now, if you're feeling overworked and exhausted, I've got some good news. The Stress Less Company works with high achieving executives, business owners, and managers, just like you to find that sense of peace and freedom that they desire. And as a result of our work together, they not only learn how to deepen their spiritual connection, whatever that means to them. They also learn those tactical tools so that they can experience more free, time, more efficiency, and more prosperity. It sounds pretty great, right? Well, you can apply for a complimentary stress assessment today to start the conversation about working together, simply visit stresslessco.com/apply for more information. And of course, to apply. stresslessco.com/apply. Now, this concludes this episode of the Stress Less Show. If you've, I actually do want to give one last big shout out to our guest, Nicole. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on the show.
Nicole (09:58):
Thanks for having me.
Carlee (10:00):
Absolutely. Now, if you've enjoyed this week's episode, let us know by giving us a big ol' thumbs up and hitting that follow or subscribe button. Thanks for listening. Share if it resonated and we will see you next week.